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Board index » Games » Demise of Nations (DON) » DON: Modding Discussions & Workshop


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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 26 May 2015, 18:58 
Peasant
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Joined: 18 May 2015, 01:57
Posts: 67
Swissarmyknife wrote:
Very nice work on the map, Caprontos.

I was playing it today as Liu Bei and lost within the first few turns because he starts out with a single farm (all default settings) and neighbors on all sides. He also starts at war with one of the neighbors with a larger territory overall (2+ cities?) in the northeast and the East neighbor turned on me...fastest loss ever.

Restarted as Sun Ce and doing better at least. Great work on the flags too.


Yeah Liu Bei probably has the worst start.. He shouldn't "Start" at war though with anyone though.. He does start in an alliance with Tao Qian.. If Kong Rong (he is northeast and has two harbors + a city) is declaring war on Liu Bei right away, that's just random chance.. If your actually starting at war, like before you do anything.. Then somethings broken.

... In any case, you should be able to kill Lu Bu early since your very close to him and have double the starting supplies as him... If you can rush him.. He has 3 farms + a city and a harbor.. And the harbor lets you fish a few of the fish in the river.

If you can make an alliance with kong rong, you can probably move on to take out Cao Cao with out worry of an eastern attack... And gain a more prosperous area.. Granted I don't how it might go on hard or worse difficulty....

Also resource distribution was based on this idea:
Image

Which I didn't like how it worked out.. initially but will revisit it, perhaps next (if I don't decide to do the current one with starting techs/resources/buildings instead).. I think the reason I was getting bad results though was more because I was playing with the whole map viable, so factions could declare war on any other faction... from the start - rather then just the ones they can see..


And yeah Sun Ce and Liu Bei.. in my play through lasted till the end but.. They didn't do a whole lot.. Liu Bei was everywhere on the map... and Sun Ce, I think took over some stuff off Liu Yao.. Then lost it to Yan Baihu later..


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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 26 May 2015, 19:15 
Serf
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Joined: 26 May 2015, 17:42
Posts: 7
Caprontos wrote:
Yeah Liu Bei probably has the worst start.. He shouldn't "Start" at war though with anyone though.. He does start in an alliance with Tao Qian.. If Kong Rong (he is northeast and has two harbors + a city) is declaring war on Liu Bei right away, that's just random chance.. If your actually starting at war, like before you do anything.. Then somethings broken.

... In any case, you should be able to kill Lu Bu early since your very close to him and have double the starting supplies as him... If you can rush him.. He has 3 farms + a city and a harbor.. And the harbor lets you fish a few of the fish in the river.

If you can make an alliance with kong rong, you can probably move on to take out Cao Cao with out worry of an eastern attack... And gain a more prosperous area.. Granted I don't how it might go on hard or worse difficulty....


I moved a barbarian northeast and on Turn 2, he got attacked. I didn't see an actual war declaration so I assume he started out at war with Kong Rong.

I allied with Lu Bu and whomever is south of me. That worked out for a small bit anyway and then the eastern ally turned on me for fighting with Kong Rong and killed me in the end.

It is very much a tough position on Inhuman, but very fun. I'm going to have to clear it with Sun Ce and then try Liu Bei again.


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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 27 May 2015, 10:30 
Peasant
Peasant

Joined: 18 May 2015, 01:57
Posts: 67
Swissarmyknife wrote:
I moved a barbarian northeast and on Turn 2, he got attacked. I didn't see an actual war declaration so I assume he started out at war with Kong Rong.

I allied with Lu Bu and whomever is south of me. That worked out for a small bit anyway and then the eastern ally turned on me for fighting with Kong Rong and killed me in the end.

It is very much a tough position on Inhuman, but very fun. I'm going to have to clear it with Sun Ce and then try Liu Bei again.


I see, so probably just a bad set of random events. Also looking at it in test mode, he should have two farms starting out.. Perhaps one got stolen and you didn't see.. (because someone declared war on you, then accepted an alliance.... Cause that can happen).. He should also have a lumber camp.


On a different subject.. I have decided to do this one:
Image

With more starting resources.. but what I can't decide is.. I want Wei at war with Ma Teng, Gongsun Du, Wu and Shu.. from the start..

But I am unsure if the AI can handle this (I don't want Wei to just get carved up super easily).. I am sure a player can deal with it... But at the same time I don't want him to ally with any of them..which is what will happen if you don't start them at war..

Since I can't at this time make it do what I want.. I will probably finish the scenario and just let them ally if they wanna ally.. and only start Cao Cao at war with two of the factions.. Then if we get options to, I'll revisit it and fix it.


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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 27 May 2015, 11:31 
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I wonder, Noble had an AI thing that you could watch what is similar to the minimap of AI killing each other over course of turns. Would be helpful in testing balance of AI in maps too. I don't know if it is accessible or implemented though...

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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 27 May 2015, 13:52 
Peasant
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Joined: 18 May 2015, 01:57
Posts: 67
TravisII wrote:
I wonder, Noble had an AI thing that you could watch what is similar to the minimap of AI killing each other over course of turns. Would be helpful in testing balance of AI in maps too. I don't know if it is accessible or implemented though...




That would be helpful. perhaps once the actual editor becomes a thing to work on, it can be considered.

Also perhaps one that just shows ground water over a year, so you can see.. Cause I feel like my current maps water issues are weird.. An it'd be nice to see what is happening so I could think about how to address it..


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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 27 May 2015, 14:20 
Serf
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Joined: 26 May 2015, 17:42
Posts: 7
The scenario defaults to "Randomize Resources" and I didn't uncheck it when I scroll down to hit start on the first game. I unchecked it on the second go-around and rushed Lu Bu immediately. After taking his camps, I slowly made my way east and began conquering Kong Rong.

At the current rate, I'll probably have everyone conquered within 200 turns.


RE: The AI tracking. You can turn on all of the tracking options in the game options so you can see when they ally, who they ally with, who is battling and where they are battling. You can also watch their movements (if you turn off Explore Area) to see how they are playing out the map.


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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 27 May 2015, 14:59 
Peasant
Peasant

Joined: 18 May 2015, 01:57
Posts: 67
Swissarmyknife wrote:
The scenario defaults to "Randomize Resources" and I didn't uncheck it when I scroll down to hit start on the first game. I unchecked it on the second go-around and rushed Lu Bu immediately. After taking his camps, I slowly made my way east and began conquering Kong Rong.

At the current rate, I'll probably have everyone conquered within 200 turns.


RE: The AI tracking. You can turn on all of the tracking options in the game options so you can see when they ally, who they ally with, who is battling and where they are battling. You can also watch their movements (if you turn off Explore Area) to see how they are playing out the map.


Not sure if I can set resources option to default off.... If so maybe someone can tell me how..

As for ai tracking, I have done that a little bit ago.. and the AI doesn't know how to deal with a big food loss per turn.. and decides to just disband its whole army..

As a player you can literally just block the pass and set your spearmen to fortify.. and he will kill his Horsemen attacking you.. Then proceed to destroy him.. You can also balance your food issues in the first turn very easily..

Once garrasion troops are handled as they should by the ai (just leave them in the city).. I can make it a lot harder for them to win..

I wonder what the test mode difficulty is set to.. Perhaps its so bad because its on like causal or something.. In any case I'd like to be able to adjust it. to see what the ai does on harder and easier difficulties..

All in all though I am still unhappy with how it works.. and am unsure how to adjust it with out doing an "most things" start.... Which I don't wanna do..


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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 27 May 2015, 16:28 
Peasant
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Joined: 20 May 2015, 15:03
Posts: 33
Location: New York
Caprontos wrote:
Swissarmyknife wrote:
The scenario defaults to "Randomize Resources" and I didn't uncheck it when I scroll down to hit start on the first game. I unchecked it on the second go-around and rushed Lu Bu immediately. After taking his camps, I slowly made my way east and began conquering Kong Rong.

At the current rate, I'll probably have everyone conquered within 200 turns.


RE: The AI tracking. You can turn on all of the tracking options in the game options so you can see when they ally, who they ally with, who is battling and where they are battling. You can also watch their movements (if you turn off Explore Area) to see how they are playing out the map.


Not sure if I can set resources option to default off.... If so maybe someone can tell me how..

As for ai tracking, I have done that a little bit ago.. and the AI doesn't know how to deal with a big food loss per turn.. and decides to just disband its whole army..

As a player you can literally just block the pass and set your spearmen to fortify.. and he will kill his Horsemen attacking you.. Then proceed to destroy him.. You can also balance your food issues in the first turn very easily..

Once garrasion troops are handled as they should by the ai (just leave them in the city).. I can make it a lot harder for them to win..

I wonder what the test mode difficulty is set to.. Perhaps its so bad because its on like causal or something.. In any case I'd like to be able to adjust it. to see what the ai does on harder and easier difficulties..

All in all though I am still unhappy with how it works.. and am unsure how to adjust it with out doing an "most things" start.... Which I don't wanna do..


I'll try a Inhumane Test Run this week if I can. Pretty sure I'll be fine since I always play on Inhumane difficulty(Did lose a campaign due to ignorance once though). Will report my findings back here when I finish.


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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 27 May 2015, 19:46 
Game Developer
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005, 02:34
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Quote:
I wonder, Noble had an AI thing that you could watch what is similar to the minimap of AI killing each other over course of turns. Would be helpful in testing balance of AI in maps too. I don't know if it is accessible or implemented though...

It's there, but currently hidden as it isn't ready for prime-time. Let me fix it up & add for the next release.

Please note, use at your own risk! :kg:

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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 27 May 2015, 21:19 
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noblemaster wrote:
It's there, but currently hidden as it isn't ready for prime-time. Let me fix it up & add for the next release.

Nice!

I almost wasn't sure it was ever there.

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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 28 May 2015, 03:33 
Peasant
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Joined: 18 May 2015, 01:57
Posts: 67
InstantHax wrote:

I'll try a Inhumane Test Run this week if I can. Pretty sure I'll be fine since I always play on Inhumane difficulty(Did lose a campaign due to ignorance once though). Will report my findings back here when I finish.


Well.. I saw your post on lack of rain, Let me know if my rain situation is the same as the other maps or much worse..

Because its quite bad but I will be testing the storm stuff a little and see if I can figure out some numbers to address it..


I kinda like the constant food fluctuation (as its fine for certain times of the year then you get almost none the rest.. making you have to manage it a bit).. but the ai doesn't seem like it knows what to do with it.. I've seen it just disbanding its entire military mid war.. because Its running out of food..

I did a 200 turn test on the new map where i just sat as Meng Huo, allied with Liu Zhang+ everyone else eventually (Sun Quan went to war with me though for many turns)..

Only Zhang Lu (guy starts with one city) died.. and it was only after he took over all of Ma Teng's cities but since the ai doesn't defend, Ma Teng was taking them back over right behind him.... and eventually corner (Accidentally) his units and killed them..

Gongsun Du beats Cao Cao, every time even though its a Horsemen vs spearmen fight.. because.. Cao Cao refuses to defend and deletes his army after a bit..

Sun Quan was marching his army through Cao Cao's lands but never in an alliance with him.. To attack me, and when he made peace with me... He attacked Cao Cao and basically took out 70% of his lands in a few turns because he had army through out his land.. and he had almost nothing protecting himself..

Liu Zhang took over most of Ma Teng's lands.. while Ma Teng took over most of his.. (Stupidly)..

The ai likes to make fishing boats but not put them on fish.. (Gongsun Du actually ravaged a lot of Cao Cao's ports with them.. because again he refused to defend)..

And I began to struggle to sale wood to maintain enough gold to keep researching :P

I'mma try a 100turn or so test, with no starting troops only starting stuff.. and see if the AI can work with that better..


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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 28 May 2015, 06:13 
Game Developer
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Quote:
The ai likes to make fishing boats but not put them on fish.. (Gongsun Du actually ravaged a lot of Cao Cao's ports with them..
Let me have a look & fix!

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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 29 May 2015, 04:34 
Peasant
Peasant

Joined: 18 May 2015, 01:57
Posts: 67
I uploaded a new version for this bundle.. (available when ever accepted.. if nothing is wrong with it)

Changes:
-Climate and rain changes to make farms actually useful.. Maybe to useful.. Let me know?
-You now start with the construct village/harbor inventions (because they are useless so you don't have to research it).
-Sun Ce's barbarian now starts on his transport ship.. and has two.. Liu Yao must die!..
-You can no longer build units with out actually owning the tech for them. (IE if you take over a city with a stable, you can't build Horsemen unless you learned the tech).
-Maybe other things I forgot


-Added a new scenario for 211bc. Most nations have several cities and one of each resource + 2 farms (Cao Cao starts with much more so the ai can actually play as him)- everyone starts with nation specific techs.. Cao Cao has spears -Liu Zhang, Liu Bei, Zhang Lu have archers - Sun Quan has ships - Gongsun Du and Ma Teng start with Horsemen - and Meng Huo has elephants. They all also have the starter resource techs + harbor/village construction and some troops..

This scenario isn't exactly how I want it but its good enough for the moment I think..

As usual any issues or comments feel free to add.

Also noble if I need to do something with my files to make the City/Troops/Production Listings work with this bundle, I can do that or upload it and you can do it for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 29 May 2015, 05:44 
Game Developer
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Quote:
I uploaded a new version for this bundle.. (available when ever accepted.. if nothing is wrong with it)

Just approved & put it live :kg:

Maybe, you want to rename your 2 scenarios. They are both called "Three Kingdoms"! Maybe some slight variation e.g. year to set them apart!?

Quote:
Also noble if I need to do something with my files to make the City/Troops/Production Listings work with this bundle, I can do that or upload it and you can do it for me.

Just uploaded a bugfix 20 minutes ago! Should work now :kg:

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 Post subject: Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms scenario
PostPosted: 29 May 2015, 10:14 
Peasant
Peasant

Joined: 18 May 2015, 01:57
Posts: 67
noblemaster wrote:
Quote:
I uploaded a new version for this bundle.. (available when ever accepted.. if nothing is wrong with it)

Just approved & put it live :kg:

Maybe, you want to rename your 2 scenarios. They are both called "Three Kingdoms"! Maybe some slight variation e.g. year to set them apart!?

Quote:
Also noble if I need to do something with my files to make the City/Troops/Production Listings work with this bundle, I can do that or upload it and you can do it for me.

Just uploaded a bugfix 20 minutes ago! Should work now :kg:


There is in the description that says what year it is directly below the name, but I could change the name itself if that's not visible enough.. Or perhaps name the scenarios the year and leave the Three kingdoms only in the bundle name.. I do need to also change it to scenarios since is two now..

An I saw the bug fix... A few bugs I noticed today (Well not necessarily bugs but things)..

The ai will ask me if I wanna go to war with a faction that's already dead..

This might be changed for the normal game, but in the sample bundle if you take a city that has a stable, you can build Horsemen (same for a lot of those units) with out the tech.. So I made it so the units need the invent to build, not just the building.. I think it makes more sense.


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