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 Post subject: Balancing & Other Suggestions
PostPosted: 31 May 2015, 22:47 
Serf
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Joined: 26 May 2015, 17:42
Posts: 7
Cross-posting a little bit from Kalis' thread on the Steam forum and Caprontos' thread to keep everything from being confused when replying.

Archer balance: If possible, I think their strengths should be limited to specific units instead of types.
Peasants, Barbarians and Elephants +25% damage (no armor)
Spearmen, Swordsmen and Cavalry -25% damage (armored)
Maintain their range of 2
Lock direct city damage at 1 (you aren't breaking down a wall with arrows)

Elephant balance: Need to take a little more damage than normal against cavalry due to their mobility. (Think LOTR and the elephant/cavalry battle) Right now, if I have 10 elephants, I can take out a much larger nation on Inhuman because they soak so much damage that I can just swap them out between each shot in a tactical retreat.

Garrison/Garrison Archers: These troops should be able to counterattack while defending a city. Right now, they are more like damage buffers since their direct attacks do more damage to them than their victims.

Starter Bundle: There should probably be something in the description, if not already, that states the map does not contain all of the possible troops in the game. It is really confusing to free to play players that some of the buildings are there but the troops are not available.

Otherwise, simply remove those buildings as options in the Starter Bundles.

"Neutral" AI troops, those not involved in a war between two nations, blocking paths because they can't move or won't move is obnoxious. Perhaps a message option to illicit our own unhappiness with a nation that triggers a 2-3 turn retreat of their forces if the player is the larger nation? Like ordering a protectorate to return to their cities or face the consequences. Similar to how the AI calls us out if we are stagnating in their territory.

Secondary suggestion for archers...perhaps they should be like ships and be unable to take cities on their own? Same with peasants. I just don't see a city being afraid of people whose clothes are probably as ragged as their own or a guy with a bow.

Alternatively, cities should lose happiness in greater amounts when attacked to the point that a captured city (from an enemy) starts at 10% happiness and neutral (no nation) cities start at 25% happiness after capture. Loyalty to their nation should be playing the greater part in happiness and capture.


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing & Other Suggestions
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 16:04 
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re-unit balancing elephants/archers/garrison: would you mind given this a try by adjusting the module/module_mini.config? I can spend time too, but I am trying to get some more features out before I get to that.

Quote:
Starter Bundle: There should probably be something in the description, if not already, that states the map does not contain all of the possible troops in the game. It is really confusing to free to play players that some of the buildings are there but the troops are not available.

Otherwise, simply remove those buildings as options in the Starter Bundles.

Travis is currently reworking all the different troop types. I figured although it's not good right now, let's hold off until the new troops are in fix it up after that. Otherwise we would have to do it twice.

Quote:
Secondary suggestion for archers...perhaps they should be like ships and be unable to take cities on their own?
There is an option you can set (mov: ... capturer=n...) which disables a unit from taking over structures (I just updated the Wiki). I personally find it OK to use archers/peasants to take over structures. We could change it rather easily, but I'd prefer to have a second/third opinion first on that.

Quote:
"Neutral" AI troops, those not involved in a war between two nations, blocking paths because they can't move or won't move is obnoxious. Perhaps a message option to illicit our own unhappiness with a nation that triggers a 2-3 turn retreat of their forces if the player is the larger nation?
It's on the todo-list. I'll add the messaging option. Getting the AI to actually move out of someone's territory is a whole other question though (opinion/etc.-based).

Quote:
Alternatively, cities should lose happiness in greater amounts when attacked to the point that a captured city (from an enemy) starts at 10% happiness and neutral (no nation) cities start at 25% happiness after capture.
Ditto above it's possible. Not sure about that either? How about we get some other opinions on that first also? :kg:

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing & Other Suggestions
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 16:21 
Serf
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Joined: 26 May 2015, 17:42
Posts: 7
noblemaster wrote:
re-unit balancing elephants/archers/garrison: would you mind given this a try by adjusting the module/module_mini.config? I can spend time too, but I am trying to get some more features out before I get to that.


Yep, will do some testing with it this week.

I haven't really delved too far into the modules yet other than adding technologies.


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing & Other Suggestions
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 16:38 
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Great :kg:

Just ask if you need clarification!

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing & Other Suggestions
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2015, 06:04 
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Quote:
Secondary suggestion for archers...perhaps they should be like ships and be unable to take cities on their own?
noblemaster wrote:
There is an option you can set (mov: ... capturer=n...) which disables a unit from taking over structures (I just updated the Wiki). I personally find it OK to use archers/peasants to take over structures. We could change it rather easily, but I'd prefer to have a second/third opinion first on that.

While an armed and armored army makes it easier to take over a city. Cities and towns historically have fallen to peasants with bow and arrow, pitch folks and other common weapons/tools. This sounds more like what era or feel you want the game to have, so yeah, this is very opinion based. I say this can wait and once everything is working you can return to it as a consideration for game balance. My opinion. :/


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing & Other Suggestions
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2015, 07:03 
Serf
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Joined: 26 May 2015, 17:42
Posts: 7
With the clarification of having an option to set, I withdraw my initial suggestion to make it a default that they can't capture towns/walled cities on their own.

Creating a modded map with the option set (and lore to back it up) will be a better standard, especially since a change would effect the free players as well and make combat more difficult on them (since their units are more limited).


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing & Other Suggestions
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2016, 00:11 
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Joined: 21 Dec 2016, 00:09
Posts: 3
Protectorates & Allies

I was playing a game as Sardinia recently (loving it so far, the AI now joins wars more which is great to see and there is good challenge) and after making Rome, Carthage and Greece into my Protectorates - and the Celts into Allies after I killed everything else - I noted parts of my Protectorates' territory was "not discovered" by me yet. I don't mean Fog of War, i.e. not seeing troops, but fully blacked out tiles as if I hadn't discovered them. Surely, you should be able to see into the provinces after making a protectorate? Also, and this is the same for Age of Conquest IV, in my humble opinion, Protectorates should be called to your wars and disabled from starting wars independently - in the aforementioned Sardinia campaign, the Greeks (my Protectorate by this point) declared war on Rome, another Protectorate of mine, and was later joined by the Celts against Rome! This does seem a little unrealistic, though I'm sure there's a sensible balance reason behind it.


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing & Other Suggestions
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2016, 20:02 
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I think something similar was discussed for Age of Conquest IV.

I think that suggestion makes definitely sense. The question is if Diplomacy should be restricted that way? It could actually be fun to add!

I wonder, I could add a game setup option "Strict Diplomacy" where protectorates would e.g. (a) not be able to start wars on their own (although that seems quite restrictive), (b) automatically are at war with all the nations the protector is at war. Should that really be automatic? Should there be a happiness penalty etc.? Having e.g. the protectorates alliances converted to war might be very strict?

I also wonder if there are ways where multiple players in multiplayer matches could gang up on others by using that tactics?

other people's comments?

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing & Other Suggestions
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2016, 23:33 
Serf
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Joined: 21 Dec 2016, 00:09
Posts: 3
Possibly, restrict numbers of Allies, or make it that you can only make very small nations (max. 5 tiles, maybe?) into protectorates and, if they are limited to being unable to declare war, they can't be a huge worry but are still pretty useful to have as they are also extra money and score?


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing & Other Suggestions
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2016, 19:45 
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That probably makes sense. Anyhow, I put the game option onto the todo-list. :kg:

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing & Other Suggestions
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2016, 22:25 
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Joined: 21 Dec 2016, 00:09
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That's amazing, thanks!


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