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 Post subject: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 21 May 2015, 04:43 
Peasant
Peasant

Joined: 18 May 2015, 01:57
Posts: 67
Suggestions:
I really like ROTK 11, and this game plays a bit like that.. Basically a more combat focused civ... So a feature from that game that might suit this one is, letting us build engineers who can then build field structures.. like forts, that give units a defense boost + have zoc.. or towers, that ranged units on them get a bonus range.. but structures would take x turns to build and focus more on defending your land.. Perhaps bridges could be moved in to this units list of things it can do.. To prevent "Structure spam" you just make it so a structure can't be built within 2 tiles or so of another one..

Add some hotkeys (or if they exist... I didn't know) for building and upgrading improvements.. As if you have like 40 farms, its a bit of a pain to upgrade them all.. Basically I wanna be able to click a farm, then press some key to upgrade it.. Even if I have to press the key a few times(to navigate the windows) its easier/faster then clicking through it..

I saw your tips/tricks post on how to limit a unit to a faction.. I think it'd be nice if this could be made into a proper features + have a way to limit how many of them a faction can make.. This would enable, for custom games if not yours, the ability to have "hero" units. for certain factions..

Thoughts:
I feel the AI is a little to aggressive, from my few games experience, they just seem to attack non-stop (I have only played "Casual" since I am still learning the basic things.. so perhaps on harder difficulties it will be different).. So it makes me feel like I have to also constantly be at war with someone.. and also I have to rush research... Which means I am expanding but I never have any gold to build up the cities I am taking..

I feel like new cities grow way to slowly.. By the time they got to the point I could use them.. The game would probably be over a few 100 turns ago.. I think new cities should have a natural growth bonus so they grow quicker then established cities.. but only for so many turns or till x size is reached..


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 Post subject: Re: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 21 May 2015, 14:19 
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Quote:
letting us build engineers who can then build field structures..

That's a great idea! There are some hooks in the game that allow you to do that in the future, I haven't gotten around to implement the GUI panels etc. yet though. Also, I would need an actual engineer graphic etc. from the artist (Tony) as well. This is somewhat on the back-burner for now until more "urgent" requests are implemented.

Quote:
As if you have like 40 farms, its a bit of a pain to upgrade them all.. Basically I wanna be able to click a farm, then press some key to upgrade it..

I could add a key. I assume you noticed the new panels I added in the last release that list all your cities, troops & production. There you can somewhat quickly upgrade all the farms.

Quote:
I saw your tips/tricks post on how to limit a unit to a faction.. I think it'd be nice if this could be made into a proper features + have a way to limit how many of them a faction can make.. This would enable, for custom games if not yours, the ability to have "hero" units. for certain factions..

That's what I am working right now. I'll should get it done with the next few days. I'll update the forum post/Wiki also after I finished implementing it.

Quote:
I feel the AI is a little to aggressive

That's a big item on my todo-list too. The AI needs a lot of improvement!

Quote:
I feel like new cities grow way to slowly..

That's an interesting point. I feel on the other hand the larger cities grow too fast. I'll try to work on that for the next release, i.e. make smaller cities grow a lot faster but slow down growth for larger cities (makes things easier to balance as well!).

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 Post subject: Re: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 22 May 2015, 12:47 
Peasant
Peasant

Joined: 18 May 2015, 01:57
Posts: 67
noblemaster wrote:
That's a great idea! There are some hooks in the game that allow you to do that in the future, I haven't gotten around to implement the GUI panels etc. yet though. Also, I would need an actual engineer graphic etc. from the artist (Tony) as well. This is somewhat on the back-burner for now until more "urgent" requests are implemented.


Of course. Good to hear it is a likely thing.. I think it'll help vary how you combat.

Quote:
I could add a key. I assume you noticed the new panels I added in the last release that list all your cities, troops & production. There you can somewhat quickly upgrade all the farms.


Yes, it is pretty handy, but I just feel hitting a keyboard key is quicker then using the mouse for all the things.. But hot key support could come later.

Quote:
That's what I am working right now. I'll should get it done with the next few days. I'll update the forum post/Wiki also after I finished implementing it.


Thats good to hear also.. Then I'll use it to add the leaders of each faction to my scenario.. As slightly stronger basic units..

This gives me another thought.. Have you considered units that do things beside combat, like.. Buff or heal?.. I know rome had the standard bearers and such.. I saw there is a religion section, perhaps priest that heal.. (Not magically of course.. but through good old medical science.. like leeches and amputations).. And like wise, could be used for "general" units..

This may not suit this particular game though.


Quote:
That's a big item on my todo-list too. The AI needs a lot of improvement!


AI is usually a difficult thing to get right.

Quote:
That's an interesting point. I feel on the other hand the larger cities grow too fast. I'll try to work on that for the next release, i.e. make smaller cities grow a lot faster but slow down growth for larger cities (makes things easier to balance as well!).


That makes more sense. Should make building cities more useful.

Once that is a thing maybe I'll try my everyone starts with one city on there own island.. thing again.. The first try, I don't know if the AI knew what to do.. It had no one to fight.. and one city ..


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 Post subject: Re: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 22 May 2015, 16:01 
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Quote:
This gives me another thought.. Have you considered units that do things beside combat, like.. Buff or heal?.. I know rome had the standard bearers and such.. I saw there is a religion section, perhaps priest that heal.. (Not magically of course.. but through good old medical science.. like leeches and amputations).. And like wise, could be used for "general" units..

Quote:
Yes, I got some hooks in the code for "healing", "building" and "rainmaking". Haven't fully developed it yet!

Once that is a thing maybe I'll try my everyone starts with one city on there own island.. thing again.. The first try, I don't know if the AI knew what to do.. It had no one to fight.. and one city ..

If the basic resources are lacking, the AI will have a hard time. I still need to do some work there. Also, ship loading/unloading is party not working correctly. I need to look into that.

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 Post subject: Re: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 22 May 2015, 16:02 
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Quote:
This gives me another thought.. Have you considered units that do things beside combat, like.. Buff or heal?.. I know rome had the standard bearers and such.. I saw there is a religion section, perhaps priest that heal.. (Not magically of course.. but through good old medical science.. like leeches and amputations).. And like wise, could be used for "general" units..

Yes, I got some hooks in the code for "healing", "building" and "rainmaking". Haven't fully developed it yet!

Quote:
Once that is a thing maybe I'll try my everyone starts with one city on there own island.. thing again.. The first try, I don't know if the AI knew what to do.. It had no one to fight.. and one city ..

If the basic resources are lacking, the AI will have a hard time. I still need to do some work there. Also, ship loading/unloading is party not working correctly. I need to look into that.

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 Post subject: Re: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 23 May 2015, 06:53 
Peasant
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Joined: 20 May 2015, 15:03
Posts: 33
Location: New York
Caprontos wrote:
Suggestions:
I really like ROTK 11, and this game plays a bit like that.. Basically a more combat focused civ... So a feature from that game that might suit this one is, letting us build engineers who can then build field structures.. like forts, that give units a defense boost + have zoc.. or towers, that ranged units on them get a bonus range.. but structures would take x turns to build and focus more on defending your land.. Perhaps bridges could be moved in to this units list of things it can do.. To prevent "Structure spam" you just make it so a structure can't be built within 2 tiles or so of another one..

Hmmm this might be a good side addon. Not sure if this is compatible with all maps though since construable buildings can really blockade an AI factions, rendering them useless.

Add some hotkeys (or if they exist... I didn't know) for building and upgrading improvements.. As if you have like 40 farms, its a bit of a pain to upgrade them all.. Basically I wanna be able to click a farm, then press some key to upgrade it.. Even if I have to press the key a few times(to navigate the windows) its easier/faster then clicking through it..

I totally agree with this. Can't even count how many times I spent just clicking the upgrade button over and over again.

I saw your tips/tricks post on how to limit a unit to a faction.. I think it'd be nice if this could be made into a proper features + have a way to limit how many of them a faction can make.. This would enable, for custom games if not yours, the ability to have "hero" units. for certain factions..

I agree with this completely. Currently, all the factions are pretty much the same since there is no real differences between them except starting locations. EVERY main faction should have at least 1-2 unique unit and they should have a unique faction trait or two.

For example:

Rome - Unrelenting Will(All wounded units heal at a faster rate/3-4 per heal instead of 2).
Carthage - Naval Dominance(All ships get +1 attack/defense bonus during combat)
Illyria - Fierce Independence(All units get +1 attack/defense when fighting in their own territory)
Syracuse - Archimedes's Wisdom(Research cost is decreased by 25%)
Etc etc...


Thoughts:
I feel the AI is a little to aggressive, from my few games experience, they just seem to attack non-stop (I have only played "Casual" since I am still learning the basic things.. so perhaps on harder difficulties it will be different).. So it makes me feel like I have to also constantly be at war with someone.. and also I have to rush research... Which means I am expanding but I never have any gold to build up the cities I am taking..

I don't really have this problem unless I'm playing on the higher difficulties. Recently, I have finished two inhumane(Highest difficulty) campaigns, one as Greece and an another as Gaul. On the first turn end, literally everybody declares war on each other. This can be a bit overkill at some times but quite frankly I don't mind since I just clean up the mess :D

I feel like new cities grow way to slowly.. By the time they got to the point I could use them.. The game would probably be over a few 100 turns ago.. I think new cities should have a natural growth bonus so they grow quicker then established cities.. but only for so many turns or till x size is reached

^Definitely this. Currently, there is no point in building new cities tbh. They cost you way too many resources that you need more for your army/economy.



Just my 2 cents :happyx:


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 Post subject: Re: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 23 May 2015, 15:43 
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Quote:
Add some hotkeys (or if they exist... I didn't know) for building and upgrading improvements..

It's on the todo-list. I'll moved it up on the todo-list!

Quote:
EVERY main faction should have at least 1-2 unique unit and they should have a unique faction trait or two.

on the todo-list: haven't gotten to it yet. However, I modified the underlying parameters to easier allow that!

Quote:
Rome - Unrelenting Will(All wounded units heal at a faster rate/3-4 per heal instead of 2).
Carthage - Naval Dominance(All ships get +1 attack/defense bonus during combat)
Illyria - Fierce Independence(All units get +1 attack/defense when fighting in their own territory)
Syracuse - Archimedes's Wisdom(Research cost is decreased by 25%)
Etc etc...

Suggestions for Rome & Carthage are definitely possible. The scenarios need to all be updated.

What Illyria concerns: it's little bit difficult to determine "own territory" as the unit take over the territory they stand on. Not sure how to go about it?

re-Syracuse: I could update the "Advancement" option.

Quote:
I feel like new cities grow way to slowly..
It's in yesterday's release. However, growth-factor might need tweaking

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 Post subject: Re: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 23 May 2015, 18:43 
Peasant
Peasant
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Joined: 20 May 2015, 15:03
Posts: 33
Location: New York
Sounds good!

I tried showing my friend this game today but he thought it was boring since all the factions were the same(Even though I fought him hard for it lol).

As for Illyria's Trait, I thought of some other options you could consider.

Agile Warriors - All units can move 1 extra block per turn

Fierce Raiders - All units do extra damage to Cities

Master Marksmen - Archer's firing range is increased from 1 to 2 tiles.

War Frenzy - Units are cheaper to hire during War-Time

Master Sailsmen - Naval Units get +1 bonus to attack/defense.

One more suggestion from me

Cut up the Celt's lands and use them to make more factions. Currently, the Celts control a massive amount of land and also a massive amount of natural resources. This makes their single player campaign both easy and they can be quite overpowered in multiplayer. I suggest you take Iberia and split it into two different factions, the Lusitani and the Averaci. For Gaul, you should split it up into the Boii and the Averni. I feel like this will make the game a lot more balanced and more historically accurate as the Celts were never really truly united until Julius Caesar began his conquest of Gaul.


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 Post subject: Re: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 23 May 2015, 18:59 
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Quote:
Agile Warriors - All units can move 1 extra block per turn
Fierce Raiders - All units do extra damage to Cities
Master Marksmen - Archer's firing range is increased from 1 to 2 tiles.
War Frenzy - Units are cheaper to hire during War-Time
Master Sailsmen - Naval Units get +1 bonus to attack/defense.

Added to the todo-list also!

re-splitting up Celts: it's on my todo-list already. This is going to take time to research the historical settings & then split it up.

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 Post subject: Re: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 24 May 2015, 02:21 
Peasant
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Joined: 18 May 2015, 01:57
Posts: 67
If you want a bonus in own land buff.. It can be within x tiles of an owned city, or within x tiles of a city you have owned for x turns.


Some other things..

Merchant Kings: Bonus to city trade

Democracy: Less penalties or better results from civil actions. (IE higher taxes hurts a little less... and city decrees are a little more effective but cost a little more). (or split this in to two things).

Elite Soldiers: Bonus exp to created soldiers.

Bandit King: gain resources from pillaging and taking cities.. (Idk what pillaging does currently..)


You could also do negatives to factions to counter balance there strength with a weakness.


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 Post subject: Re: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 24 May 2015, 03:05 
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Great - added to the todo-list also.

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 Post subject: Re: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 24 May 2015, 04:13 
Peasant
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I had a weird problem with my last Rome inhumane campaign. Even though I dedicated thousands into my economy, eventually the infrastructure cost caught up with me. If I also was doing research during that time, my economy absolutely turns to crap. During my Rome Campaign, all my cities had +8 cities, Roma had about 18, Salona had 17 and Brundism had about 13. Other major cities all had +11 buildings. I was not researching anything and my base income was 400-500. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems extremely low for a economy of my size. My economy became absolutely abysmal after I decided to research Mercantilism 4. Even though I was research at 10%, my economy barely churned out 50 per turn end. It came to a point where I just stopped building buildings and instead resorted to pillaging to keep myself alive. Still won my Rome inhumane campaign fine but damn it was a lot harder than it should have been since my economy was just not able to sustain my empire.

Am I doing something wrong or is this something that needs to be fixed?

*Side note - I was trading 100 of all resources per turn also.
*Side note - My income was 1200 per turn(Rough estimate), but the infrastructure rate was 1000(Rough estimate).


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 Post subject: Re: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 24 May 2015, 15:49 
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There is the "Administration" cost that gets bigger the larger your nation. The bigger nations are harder to manage. I think that's probably realistic to assume. Also, it helps make end-games little bit more challenging & help balance against smaller nations which wouldn't stand a chance otherwise. I can adjust that number though.

Quote:
Side note - My income was 1200 per turn(Rough estimate), but the infrastructure rate was 1000(Rough estimate).

That doesn't seem right. Infrastructure might need need some balancing as I wasn't anticipating the cost to be that high. Can you check what city-buildings take up all that money?

What about your "Administration" cost: how high was that?


By the way, did you play the latest version of that map? There are some updates in regards to balancing.

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 Post subject: Re: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 24 May 2015, 16:42 
Peasant
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Location: New York
noblemaster wrote:
There is the "Administration" cost that gets bigger the larger your nation. The bigger nations are harder to manage. I think that's probably realistic to assume. Also, it helps make end-games little bit more challenging & help balance against smaller nations which wouldn't stand a chance otherwise. I can adjust that number though.

Quote:
Side note - My income was 1200 per turn(Rough estimate), but the infrastructure rate was 1000(Rough estimate).

That doesn't seem right. Infrastructure might need need some balancing as I wasn't anticipating the cost to be that high. Can you check what city-buildings take up all that money?

What about your "Administration" cost: how high was that?


By the way, did you play the latest version of that map? There are some updates in regards to balancing.


My bad, I believe it was the administration cost that really killed me. I expanded extremely quickly during my Mid-Game/Late-Game and neglected my economy a bit. The administration cost almost made me bankrupt...and I deserved every bit of it xD.


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 Post subject: Re: A few suggestions/thoughts..
PostPosted: 24 May 2015, 16:45 
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The "Administration" cost might be too high. I could make it lower but it might get too easy to win the end-game? Also, it favors stronger nations vs. smaller nations.

What you think?

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