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 Post subject: A problem with the latest update
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2019, 02:47 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 28 Sep 2018, 23:10
Posts: 7
Hey, about the declaration of war...I have a little problem with that. Do I have to wait now that a war between two countries is over Until I can declare war on a country in the war?...And what about a big country in war on a small country? I can't help the little country like this And take advantage of the situation...Now the big nations will not be afraid to make war with small country because they are sure No one will attack them Because it will be considered a gangin...need to think about it more. im not in clan and i take the advantage of the war Between two countries cus 2 vs 3 its not gangin and 2 small vs 1 big its not gang even 3 small vs 1 big... :klugscheisser:


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 Post subject: Re: A problem with the latest update
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2019, 06:16 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 20 Nov 2016, 18:19
Posts: 18
After playing a game you can declare all wars you want. It is a penalty of happiness not a limitation. The main problem will be that you will have to fight with a bigger decrease in happiness.


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 Post subject: Re: A problem with the latest update
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2019, 13:17 
Game Developer
Game Developer
User avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2005, 02:34
Posts: 8548
Location: Honolulu
Ditto what Nekonyo said! :kg:

_________________
play: Age of Conquest IV


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 Post subject: Re: A problem with the latest update
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2019, 22:04 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 28 Sep 2018, 23:10
Posts: 7
yes i still can but ..Before, there was a punishment, we'd get -12 happiness.
now its -12 happiness + -1 Each turn, So it's almost impossible to help / to take advantage from the situation. What's the point of this change? that will not gungin. but again 2 vs 1 is not gang and it still get the punishment of the gang...so now we need to with until 1 war is over so always the big country will win and become bigger and bigger....you have a punishment for attack country that is in war so why to add more punishment?
:hilfe:


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 Post subject: Re: A problem with the latest update
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2019, 22:58 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 20 Nov 2016, 18:19
Posts: 18
Thank you Noblemaster.

These changes are very polemic because they can be sometimes harmful for fair tactics. But it is far more harmful for gangs and fake wars. I liked the fact of not getting happiness killing your enemy, before the update there were some wars who were decided by killing dozens of ships throughout the sea and crashing the enemy happiness. Now that kind of surprise attack is prevented.

Altogether I think there are more advantages than disadvantages from this new balance system

You talk about small countries attacking a big country. happiness for small countries means less than for big countries and I like when a lot of people try to attack me together when it is balanced. A fair war is when the winner is decided by pure skill and it is sometimes exaggerated how people team up, but this game is not only about skill but it is also about wars and allies.

Maybe you think -1%/turn is a big disadvantage for the attacker, but most times the player who attacks win the war. So maybe it isn't so bad

Nevertheless, I play a lot of wars where both sides agree to fight one each other and both countries are similar size and population.

I'm also afraid that there will be far more multi-year slow games from now on and cities will run to 1 million more easily.

Now that you lose more happiness, maybe as a big country, it is more convenient to fund a small country to conquer lands. I remember why there is a -10% tax for offering gold to other country, so there will be more small countries telling you: "I want to be second, fund me".

Or it is more convenient to attack with your king and a lot of troops unprotecting your mainland, sometimes with funding you can build troops while conquering lands. Even if they pillage you can count the pillage turns and take one land with pillage turn at 1, restore happines and build again (this means a change in tactics, it doesn't have to be a disadvantage)

It isn't a bad update I think now but there are a few disadvantages of course and there is a lot to talk about


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 Post subject: Re: A problem with the latest update
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2019, 13:37 
Game Developer
Game Developer
User avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2005, 02:34
Posts: 8548
Location: Honolulu
Yes, the parameters can be tweaked. Now that there is a -1%/turn penalty for attackers, it probably makes sense to reduce the 1x happiness penalty when attacking another nation! Although this 1x penalty makes sense, it can be circumvented by gangsters by simply attacking at the same time. A lower penalty makes probably sense?

_________________
play: Age of Conquest IV


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 Post subject: Re: A problem with the latest update
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2019, 23:15 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 20 Nov 2016, 18:19
Posts: 18
It's common to attack someone on the same turn. So the 1x penalty isn't very effective, but it is helpful. Maybe when a lot of people attack the same player at the same time, the player with the lowest standing should get the smallest penalty and the player with the highest standing gets the highest penalty. However that idea can be used when somebody breaks alliance on you, and you ask a lot of small players to attack you same turn ceasefire ends, though it is hard to accomplish it.

About the new update, the happiness penalty in huge wars with huge countries are really high. For example:

-Two countries, same size 40% map, same population 20 million and same gold 100k. There is a war between them to choose the winner and after some game-play both have won and lost 50 battles and they haven been fighting for 15 turns. If I understand the update the player who attacked will receive all the -15% happiness from turns, but the enemy can get +50% happiness from battles and set economy to 200% easily.
The bigger the countries, the more battles there will be.

So I will share a new strategy. Break relations with the enemy, and let him attack you. Later you can play to reduce his happiness or trying to land everywhere with 1 troop.

I don't know if there are decimals in happiness. But I propose 2 things:

    1. A way of asking war to the enemy so both agree to fight. It should work like elections:
      First turn I ask my enemy to fight who may be my current ally or we may have a peace agreement.
      Second turn he accepts the war.
      Third turn the war starts.
    2. When somebody declares war on you your defeats mean 0% happiness for the attacker. Every turn that penalty increases by 0.1% to a maximum of 1%. 10 turns for the player to ask help, defend himself, etc.

I'm not sure about my second idea. But the idea of mutual agreement for wars is something I would like to have, there is no ganging if both sides agree to fight.

I would like more people talking about the update and making proposals :gott:


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 Post subject: Re: A problem with the latest update
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2019, 07:15 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 28 Sep 2018, 23:10
Posts: 7
first I didn't say it was bad update That's what I said there'd be more to think about. And I want to shout something out loud It's a war game
All that dealing with it being a fair game It doesn't fit in here. betrayal, deceive, And even a gangin its ok!!...I know some would disagree with me But think about it If I'm stronger than someone and he sends me a submission, I don't have to accept and I might prefer to kill him is thet fair? no but its again a war game...."happiness for small countries means less than for big countries " Not true. A large country has more resources to raise its happiness...the purpose of the law is to prevent ganging and fake war. but you make a clan limit. and still if some people in this game make themselves an agreement to be in top isnt it diplomacy? And you can bypass the law simply by funding your friend so still you have "ganging".... for fake war, Doesn't it count as a strategic move? The problem is with the AFK. I made an offer here about AFK but it didnt pass. :???:
a Big Country in war with a small country If I wait for the war to be over(because "ganging" is forbidden), the big country will be bigger And I won't have the option to take his place.

Thank you.i rest my case.
now lats the warrr begin :irre:


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 Post subject: Re: A problem with the latest update
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2019, 20:27 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 20 Nov 2016, 18:19
Posts: 18
It's a war game and happiness damages small and big countries. The big country has more resources for happiness but his cost is also bigger. And if a small country is attacked, a good strategy will be to pillage his own land and build a big army with his king while asking for help. If I'm running with my king pillaging everything happiness doesn't damage me a lot.

I played a lot since the new update and I think there will be some cold wars because none of the expert players will declare war. And tactics should not be the same for the attacker and defender

If you don't want to submit, then he should fight you of course.

I like some of your ideas nadav. Let's try to improve the game as much as we can


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 Post subject: Re: A problem with the latest update
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2019, 02:52 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 29 Jul 2018, 11:51
Posts: 10
Hello guys,

I would like to reply to this topic as well. I think with the new update it is harder to gang, so that's a good thing. However i have some proposed changes for next update. When i refer to attacker and defender i mean the person who started the war and the person who was declared war upon.

1. When 2nd player declares war on someone, happiness penalty of the 1st attacker does not raise to 2%, but stays at 1%. When 3th player declares war on someone, hapiness penalty of 1st attacker and 2nd attacker both stay at 1%.

Why? There are two reasons to apply this change. First of all, the first nation which attacks might not even want other players to join his war and 'help' defeat the enemy. When the first attacker decided to declare war and get 1% happiness penalty, he calculated he could just overcome his enemy. But if two other nation join and don't really contribute to the war, the first attacker might lose because of the 3% happiness penalty per turn. Maybe you guys would say this is just part of the game, but luckily there is a second reason. When two equal size and equal power nations fight each other, a small third and even fourth nation might declare war on the defender to help him. How that works: well, they don't actually attack the defender, but the attacker now gets 3% happniess penalty instead of 1%. It even gets worse when the small nation(s) attacks a big army of the defender with 1 unit each time. Then the defender will get several happiness bonusses each turn. This whole thing happened to me in a game i'm playing now and although my size, pop and support is equal to my enemy (the defender), i get -3% hapiness per turn while he gets +6% happiness per turn. I don't want to wine about this because i think it's just a smart strategy with the current rules. However, i think it's not the meaning of this game and it will result in less wars and more simcity.

2. When a player wins or loses a battle, this should have no effect on his happiness or that of his opponent.

Why? As Nekonyo pointed out earlier, when two equal size nations fight each other, the defender gets significant hapiness boost (+2%?) from all the won battles when the attacker moves to his province. The attacker gets happiness loss (-1%) from all the lost battles when he move to the defenders province. And when the defender moves to the province of the attacker and wins, he gets no boost, but the attacker gets happiness loss (-1%) again. Next to that, the same strategy as above can be applied in which a small nation declares a fake war on a big nation to help him. In this case it could be both the attacker or the defender which can be helped. If there would be no happiness penalties for won and lost battles, the small fake war player is not able to help his friend by constantly attacking his friends army with 1 troop.

3. If 2 is to rigorous, why not equal the happiness penalty/boost system for both the attacker and the defender?

Why? Well, it's more realistic compared to real battles ;) And you would prevent people from putting 1 unit in every province. Next to that, attacking someone of your own size would become more interesting again since you could make up for the -1/-2/-3% hapiness penalty. You could attack smart so you would get some hapiness back.

I hope what i say makes a bit sense and i look forward to your response. Personally i prefer 1. and 3. ;)

Greetings BarthVader


Last edited by BarthVader on 09 Nov 2019, 12:31, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A problem with the latest update
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2019, 13:02 
Peasant
Peasant

Joined: 23 Mar 2013, 18:33
Posts: 43
I have always initiated war when facing certain attack by bigger players. Fake wars needed to be address, but not multiple real wars. Penalties should only start when no attacks between parties occur in 2 turns. That won't unfairly penalize real multiwar situations. In my opinion, no happiness penalty to defender in lost wars, are absolutely unfair and terrible mistake.

I urge Noblemaster to at very least eliminate "no -happiness to defender in lost battles. It is being utilized by defender to weaken attacker but without consequences to defender even if defender is 10x bigger than attacker.


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