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 Post subject: Discussion of in-game post wall
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2018, 21:47 
Peasant
Peasant

Joined: 29 Apr 2018, 21:55
Posts: 41
noblemaster wrote:
I agree we shouldn't simply remove those messages. It's relevant to the game in my opinion. On the other hand, it also depends on the extent of the posting. Posting a message once in a while is fine, but spamming the wall is another story. Please keep in mind that most players are not participating.

Also, I think the wall needs some sort of replacement as it tends to be cause a lot of anger. Maybe replace the wall with a new in-game forum, where instead of the wall the top in-game forum topics are listed. Not going to be quick to implement. I wonder? Maybe that would deserve a separate discussion.



fodder wrote:
The main message wall has always been somewhat of an issue going back to the early days of Age of Conquest. I think an open discussion on what function it should server is an excellent idea.

I believe the main wall should be used for announcements related to the game, leagues and assisting players who need help or are having a problem. All other talk should be done in a chat room or on the multiplayerhub forum. Just my two cents....



Lets continue this discussion here in dedicated thread


I think current link to forum is enough and wall is good in technical aspect. We just don't have enough culture for it currently) The most of posts are "hello" or some very simple question from new players who did not even try out game interface. The rest are warnings from moderators to not spam wall and only few are something useful or interesting. I fully agree with Fodder about the functions that wall should serve but we need better ways to protect wall from spam and some moderators' subjective decisions to delete valuable posts.

Maybe we can restrict new players from posting for few first days in game so they check staff and interface first before writing silly posts.

Also we can make pop up for anyone who tries to post informing about functions of wall and warning against spam (can be only very first try to post after which it wont pop up).

Also we can make so that when moderator wants to delete post another moderator needs to approve his decision before it is deleted (maybe approval of even more mods).

Also we can make voting system for all players so they can put their 'likes' and 'dislikes'. And maybe if post gets enough likes mods cant delete it or if enough dislikes it will be deleted automatically (although people probably would abuse it).

Also we might divide wall into tabs for news, official announcements, spam, question or something like that.

One of reasons why use of wall is preferred by people over chat is that it keeps messages for some time while chat messages can be seen only by players who were online when you wrote them. So maybe we can make chat show messages which were said before you logged in?


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of in-game post wall
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 01:09 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 20 Nov 2016, 18:19
Posts: 12
Proposal of in-game post wall improvement


We can design it so it has some tabs on the top for tournaments, help, clan search/recruitment and little more.

Also I like the idea of the need of more than 1 moderator for deleting messages as it looks like there are some big serious issues about some messaged removed.

Furthermore, if my first proposal success I suggest the tool of moderators of replacing messages from one tab to other so everything is clean and we don't delete some important messages.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of in-game post wall
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 04:18 
Game Developer
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005, 02:34
Posts: 8372
Location: Honolulu
Adding tabs is possible, but by the nature of things, they only show the active tab and everything else is hidden! No one goes to the hidden tabs if you ask me. I guess, I could give it a try but mhh?

Maybe buttons to different sub-sections each having each own wall? Rather than tabs, you would have:

[Game]: opens a wall to advertise games
[Clan]: opens the clan wall
[Spam]: opens a wall for random messages

I wonder? :???:

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of in-game post wall
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 04:31 
Game Developer
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005, 02:34
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Got an idea: how about charging 1 coins per wall post? That would obviously just be for that main wall below the news.

It's not about making money, but rather leaving the wall to players that really want to get their message out. Maybe 1 coin is not enough, but 10 coins would deter players from posting useless messages.

:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of in-game post wall
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 05:44 
Peasant
Peasant

Joined: 29 Apr 2018, 21:55
Posts: 41
I support Nykonyo's proposal. But coin idea is just brilliant) But if you make payment for it then there is even more need in stoping bad decisions of post deletion.

And tabs problem you have mentioned can be easily solved by showing how many unseen posts there are like you have already done to mail and clan tabs)

By buttons idea you mean like wikipedia pages work? Like in the beginning there are links which jumps you to certain part of page? I guess that would work)


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of in-game post wall
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 08:06 
Moderator
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Joined: 04 Mar 2016, 07:18
Posts: 151
The coin idea is the best solution I've heard yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of in-game post wall
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 08:12 
Investigator
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008, 18:23
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First off, thank you aibar for taking the time and initiative to move the replies to a new topic.

A pop-up window explaining the use of the wall sounds like a good idea but I wonder how many players would actually read it....

I don't like the idea of it taking two moderators or to delete an inappropriate message. If it's really offensive, it should be removed as quickly as possible and without the delay of a vote or a second moderator. I think this can be handled within the team by creating a procedure with guidelines pertaining to when something should be removed. I'll ask one of the moderator to write something up or I'll do it myself.

I like the idea of tab but it sounds like they are implemented differently from buttons. So noblemaster's suggestion of buttons might work better. I guess we can also consider how long a message needs to stay around? As you mentioned some people like the idea that message is there even when they are not, so they can recruit and do other things. Before we try to break all of this down. I do have a question for noblemaster. At one point in time I know you (noblemaster) wanted to see more activity on the forum. Do you still want to see the forum get used more? If so, perhaps having a link to the forum may work for some the talk that goes on in game? I know the forum can easily be divided up to accommodate some of the various chat rooms. However, at the same time, I know players might not be to crazy about having two windows open at the same time.

Lastly the idea of using coins to post is intriguing but I have concerns. I know there will be people who won't mind pay $ to say what's on their mind. Once they do, if it gets removed are you refunding their coin or telling them tough luck don't say offensive things? Lastly, I feel if a person is low on coin they shouldn't have to spend coins to ask for help or information pertaining to the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of in-game post wall
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 09:25 
Moderator
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Joined: 04 Mar 2016, 07:18
Posts: 151
There already is a link to the forums on the opening window of the game. I suppose it couldn't hurt to add a second link next to the message board. However, forums are a dying breed. I don't think we can expect players to come here to communicate.

Fodder has a good point regarding the proposed coin system. If added, it needs to be ensured that the coin spent is reimbursed if a message is deleted. However, I don't think requiring a single coin would discourage people from asking for help. The chat window on the left of the screen should be sufficient enough to get immediate help. Additionally, messaging the mods should be encouraged. While I wish the message board was better used to help people with questions, asking for help makes a very small sliver of the message board content and answers (if they come at all) are usually several hours separated.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of in-game post wall
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 12:04 
Investigator
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008, 18:23
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Is there already a button or link in the game, such as: "Help needed?", which would PM all moderators. This way the first mod who sees it can respond reducing the wait time. In addition, when the mod replies, that reply should be sent to all the mods so they know it's been taken care of and the new mods to see the answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of in-game post wall
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 14:42 
Game Developer
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005, 02:34
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Location: Honolulu
Quote:
I suppose it couldn't hurt to add a second link next to the message board. However, forums are a dying breed.

Yes, I think traditional forums like this are a dying breed. Although, this forum isn't optimized for mobile, so it makes it party hard to use. I need to change font sizes etc. to make it more user friendly. I think an UI overhaul would probably help a lot too.

Another option is to move to a sort of Discordapp type message board. It doesn't allow for topics though.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of in-game post wall
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 15:48 
Peasant
Peasant

Joined: 29 Apr 2018, 21:55
Posts: 41
You can create channels in discord for different topics but i think it won't be as good as in forum where there can be as many topics as needed, anyone can create new topics and in forum there is tree of topics. Also there is no paggination in discord so you will need to scroll a lot to see old messages while in forum just click pages.

About posts fee. One coins seems not enough to stop spammers(i personally would still spam at such cost :) ). And if we will fully refund deleted messages what the point of putting fees at first place) It wont stop spammers because they would know they will have everything returned once their posts deleted. And that would only disencourage good posters because they know they won't get their money back). That's why I am for better moderating after moderators)

But what we can do is take money only from people who's posts were deleted. So it hurts spammers and does not hurt good posters) Or it might be like that: everyone pays when post but if message is not deleted for certain amount of time then player gets refund

Fodder, I agree that moderators should have well defined and well covering guidelines. But if there is problem with reaction time for deletion of messages when there is several mods approval system, what we could do: when mod deletes post it goes to special list of deleted messages which only mods can see. And any other mod can recover message back to wall from this list.

And this brings to idea maybe we make tab or section of wall for deleted posts? So if players will go there and see something offensive its their own fault going there in first place lol


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of in-game post wall
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2018, 08:16 
Investigator
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008, 18:23
Posts: 3831
Location: Planet Earth, most of the time.
aibar wrote:
Fodder, I agree that moderators should have well defined and well covering guidelines. But if there is problem with reaction time for deletion of messages when there is several mods approval system, what we could do: when mod deletes post it goes to special list of deleted messages which only mods can see. And any other mod can recover message back to wall from this list.

Having deleted messages from the main board, moved to a view log for the moderators is actually a good idea. However, I don't know how often a message may get moved back. noblemaster would have to determine how much effort that would take and where on his list or priorities it would go.


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