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 Post subject: ARGH!
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2006, 15:38 
Freeman
Freeman

Joined: 27 Apr 2006, 11:21
Posts: 120
This is really getting to me!

I have recently been jumped in early game in a very significant number of my games. Not that the attackers have gained very much from it (save in one case), it has just assured the mutual destruction when others, who have risen beyond petty wars come in and kill us...

It is getting highly tiresome to see yet another player sacrifice himself, when he could easily have gotten a very lucrative alliance. It just feels foolish. And there is nothing you can do about it that doesn't weaken you enough to ensure a similar outcome if just a little later.

When do people learn that very early wars lead to nothing?

I'm beginning to feel like I'm a victim of some cabal or something... AN EVIL ALLIANCE! Well, I have at least managed to stay alive...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2006, 16:24 
Merchant
Merchant
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Joined: 12 Jun 2006, 16:11
Posts: 218
Location: Virginia
I know I have been in atleast two of these games... I tried to help you out in the second, even though you are "the competiton", cuz you were/are being swarmed and that **** (we've all be there)...

How often do you you send out peace requests to your neighbors early? I know I usually start on turn 2, sometimes turn 1 in the 33 and 55 player maps and I am close to alot of players. It **** when everyone accepts, but almost always there is one or two who don't, and you know who to be wary of and attack...

The one move you have to push off to turn 2 is well worth the extra safety.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2006, 16:29 
Knight
Knight
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Joined: 27 Apr 2006, 03:47
Posts: 1267
Location: location, location.
That explains how you've managed to hone the skills I've seen you display in games like StandardNotRandom. At first you were attacked on three fronts, you managed to persuade me and some others to attack two of those while you made peace, then got us all to make peace with each other and gang up on your remaining foes. Impressive!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2006, 02:13 
Freeman
Freeman
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Joined: 23 Jun 2006, 00:12
Posts: 151
Location: Perth, Australia
I know what you mean TL, I got into an early Stush with Banzai now Stig is going to mop us both

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2006, 02:27 
Knight
Knight
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Joined: 14 Jun 2006, 23:37
Posts: 2315
Location: Mostlikely at the bar
azzab wrote:
I know what you mean TL, I got into an early Stush with Banzai now Stig is going to mop us both

meh not really, I have to little men, I have the money tho, more then enough.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2006, 06:19 
Knight
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Joined: 28 May 2006, 02:55
Posts: 3071
Location: Wigan, UK
i remember me and Goat went at it for Margreb and Tunis, i did warn of the impilcations to both of us, and sure enough, about 15 turns in peace was made, but neither of us got anywhere :wallbash:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2006, 12:11 
Merchant
Merchant
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Joined: 15 Aug 2006, 10:17
Posts: 421
Location: Spain
Well, I think you are also attacking players in the first turns in some games (me twice). It must be a common disease =)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2006, 15:13 
Freeman
Freeman

Joined: 27 Apr 2006, 11:21
Posts: 120
Yes, I certainly have... But only a few times, I think you have been the unfortunate victim of two of about four or so attemps.
I started those after the first people began to attack me. I had to try it out, to see what the fuss was about. I quickly learned that the resources spent was too much fo early wars to be worth it.
I have however attacked another faction semi-early in a current game, but only when I had secured enough neutrals to see I had to find other avenues for expansion as well. I am not particularly proud of it, but I thought it was an 'idler' at first, so it was a natural target.

Also, I never dared attack top ranked players out of fear that they might in fact hold out and ruin the game for me. I almost managed that with Banzai in 'Alex', but then the inevitable happened and I got jumped by larger empires I hadn't been able to send out offers to.

I have appreciated all the help I have gotten, even if I haven't sent messages (sometimes you get even Moves and end up with 0.0). But it is real tiresome to come begging in game after game for assistance against yet another player that opts to attack me rather than grab (or move towards) those juicy neutrals at his back.

Most attacks have happened on turn 3, meaning they were launched on turn 2. It is practically impossible to get to such, as they have already decided that they want war, likely from the first second they play the map.

It is almost funny that I have not died yet. I have somehow managed to stay alive in the recent sneakies. In one I had a wealthy benefactor who made it possible for me to be such a pain that an alliance was way better than war (Iwas down to three provinces against a world power but managed to grab three more before peace was secured). While in another two I have been exiled to far away islands

Well, I just needed to went my frustration.
And TL, I'm hardly that successful in diplomacy in all games, but I must admit I use the message button a fair bit.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2006, 20:20 
Merchant
Merchant

Joined: 28 Apr 2006, 20:21
Posts: 295
Only time I tend to smack player off the bat is if they're n00bs and in my way or if they're ultra close - see the Russian situation or Roman Sultanate/Trebizond. Always go for the kingsnipe - empties their coffers and gets extra territory usually. I recruited basically all my men in one province and then sent them after the enemy king. Enemy hadn't moved/was going late in turn to keep defences up and I overwhelmed him.

I do hate it when I stagnate early on through war. Doesn't happen often. If you do get into a ding dong battle always try and secure another route to neutral land so you can keep territory gain up with minimal effort. That has to be established in turn 1 but can't be acted on for a couple of turns thanks to MP constraints.

I've noticed you being jumped lately, T. No idea why, start closer to me and I'll be sure to spank any n00b ;)

Not that you need any protection but a friendly front can really help at the start.

One more thing - in a close start I often take advantage of same turn neutral moves. I leave the clash moves till last and send in as many troops as possible to overwhelm their defence/be able to hold if attacked. Has worked a charm. From there you are in a position to really hammer it home if it is a close start location. I don't tend to blitz guys who I play with frequently but I hold no reservations over n00bs or guys I don't really know.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2006, 20:45 
Merchant
Merchant
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Joined: 15 Aug 2006, 10:17
Posts: 421
Location: Spain
Well, I will teach you I am no so n00bie
:barb: :barb: :barb:

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Last edited by alopezme on 20 Apr 2007, 04:55, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2006, 23:54 
Knight
Knight
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Joined: 28 May 2006, 02:55
Posts: 3071
Location: Wigan, UK
get your name on the win board for a difficult and long game and i may believe you

elefant

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2006, 01:17 
Merchant
Merchant

Joined: 28 Apr 2006, 20:21
Posts: 295
Alopezme, it is a cheap trick. If you use it on me don't expect any quarter. I'm one of the more merciless players once I've been offended :lol:

Seriously though, all you do by pulling that kind of move is irritate fellow players which makes the game more difficult for yourself. Not a good idea to get a bad name - especially with DDL as Bio found out* ;)

*Wez all sweet now tho, Bio's mah homie

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2006, 01:52 
Knight
Knight
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Joined: 28 May 2006, 02:55
Posts: 3071
Location: Wigan, UK
theres still a couple of hunters on my trail but they have a hard time putting me down, i run fast

but as things go, even with the 2 and a 1/2 days i went doing but 2 turns, only one game got really messed up thanks to Tarrak and now Merlinz

the rest i should survie (hopefully)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2006, 04:28 
Freeman
Freeman

Joined: 27 Apr 2006, 11:21
Posts: 120
I have long used the exact same tactic as Mab. Certain provinces are almost always going to fought over, so it works to send troops there at the latest possible and with the strongest forces possible.

Of course if it is an ally it is about getting there first.

I guess my current situation has to do with a combination of bad choices of position (certain players are less trustworthy) and new players not knowing what will happen...

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