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 Post subject: Lukas
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2017, 10:34 
Freeman
Freeman

Joined: 28 Aug 2016, 21:04
Posts: 136
hey,

i understand why lukas' account has been disabled. i understand why this may seem reasonable and i also understand why it is a harsh decision. i also understand the importance of the best player being around and playing.

i have had severe arguments with him at some point as i am having them with others now, but we made peace, now we are friends. i hope that can happen with other at some point, too. and i especially hope that this may be the case between the admins and lukas.

we always had great fights on the battlefield and you probably can say the same (: and i don't want to lose him.

i sincerely hope that you also would rather have him around still, no matter if you like him or not.

AoC is a great game with a nice and entertaining community. someone who i have had nasty discussions with said today that mistakes can be made. i agree with that, but it is even more important to learn from them. i find myself getting lost in arguments, which lead nowhere and i know that i need to be better than that. but in order to improve i need a chance or maybe more than one to achieve that. the admins see no chance for lukas to come around and improve his behaviour anymore and i cannot agree with that. we all have the capability to come around and find a common course, let us not throw that away.

i see a chance that some priorities may be changed and that a conversation could happen still, eventually between lukas and noblemaster.
but for that to happen the community needs to take the next step from here, otherwise it will be doomed.
so please feel free to say what you have to say, any opinion is welcome as long as it is sincere.

(:


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 Post subject: Re: Lukas
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2017, 10:44 
Freeman
Freeman

Joined: 12 Feb 2017, 11:56
Posts: 96
And we can ban somebody for accusing but not for borrowing accounts ;)?

To prevent that I would like to go back to my proposition of vacation mode


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 Post subject: Re: Lukas
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2017, 10:47 
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: 09 Mar 2017, 05:11
Posts: 41
Every single version of AoC has always had a player who made it their mission in the game to make life absolutely miserable for the mods and miserable for other players as well by making it impossible to understand if the mods actually cared about the community or not. Of course, they do.

But these players do not understand the difficult positions they put the mods in, and they damage the community as a whole.

I have always advocated for those players being disabled because there are never a large quantity of them. It's always only one or two. And nobody wants to play a game with someone who makes things impossible for the mods/players to communicate with mutual respect and actually understand each other. That course of action has never been taken before.

To me, this is a turn towards AoC finally standing up to long term disruptors and saying "Look - the crap you are pulling isn't just a nuissance, your behavior actually harms my financial bottom line by driving people away. In order for this game to continue, it needs to be profitable. And if everybody wants this game to continue, the community needs to have a mutual understanding that the mods and players both want to be supportive to each other, not destructive. As a destructive element, you have decided you would rather cause a problem in the community, commit slander/libel and make this game more difficult for everybody to enjoy, and you have got to go in order for us to keep this game open and enjoyable to everybody else."

So... Good riddance. :partyyy:


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 Post subject: Re: Lukas
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2017, 11:01 
Freeman
Freeman

Joined: 28 Aug 2016, 21:04
Posts: 136
rooster,

if being a mod is so stressful to you, then maybe you should stop right away (:

i remember the one game we shared. we were neighbours and you sent me a text out of nowhere starting with 'wow, scumbag.', just because i had attacked you in the same turn you were sending a peace offer to me. i did not report you. i was a mod at the time and you weren't. i let you know that this language was not proper here and you apparently came around and even became a mod yourself.

and now you don't want to grant others such opportunities, too?

your behaviour was not different from what you are describing.

nice dancing.


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 Post subject: Re: Lukas
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2017, 11:06 
Peasant
Peasant

Joined: 25 May 2017, 07:20
Posts: 22
I have faith in our managers. I'm sure the action they took is the best for the game and community as whole in the long run.


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 Post subject: Re: Lukas
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2017, 11:27 
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 14:11
Posts: 285
Please, let me clarify all the rumours here one last time:

Some time, ago one player from Shadows requested (at his own risk) to have his teammates doing his moves while he was on vacations. We approved it under a condition that neither of these two would be in the same game.

At one point, the player doing the moves needed to go afk as well. Therefore, they tried to ask a third teammate to control both of their accounts. However, he accidentally posted it in the clan public chat instead of pm. Now, the important part here is that this was neither requested nor approved by moderators. It is also very easy for us to find out if one players logs in for another, so this would be easy to notice for us.

When their passwords were accidntally posted in the clan chat, another player decided to make them public. And yet another player went even further and used these credentials to actually log in and damaged their personal as well as clan accounts.

At this point, we have also received several reports. So we checked all the reported accounts and found out that nobody else was doing any account-sharing, except for the one we approved and the one mentioned above. However, we managed to find a game, where the two players that had our approval were both joined, thus breaking our condition and rules as well.

Now, as you can see, there is a lot of bad decisions mentioned above. Moderators are still working on finding the most well-deserved and fair "awards" for everyone involved. We are all from different timezones, so it takes some time for every one of us to have our say. However, the list of offenders is pretty clear and the "awards" are going to be "rewarded" very soon, and that applies to all parties involved!

Now, just one last rumour to clarify: In Lukas' case, this conclusion was a collective decision taken by the moderators group, and it is not because of spreading rumours or public criticisim. The reason is the long-term and continuous harassment. Moderators don't get any reward for being moderators, it is our contribution to this game and we do it in our spare time. Thus, it is extremely unpleasant and inappropriate to be constantly harassed for things that have already been explained and clarified, in some cases even by the developers.

Hope this will stop the mis-information, if you have additional questions, I'll be happy to answer them :)


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 Post subject: Re: Lukas
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2017, 11:54 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 12 Feb 2017, 01:37
Posts: 5
Thanks for being that clear :gott:


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 Post subject: Re: Lukas
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2017, 12:23 
Freeman
Freeman

Joined: 28 Aug 2016, 21:04
Posts: 136
To group in multiplayer hub: " Dear friends, I always tried to do my best for game - I think I changed several things, rules and helped. There is 1-2 things we could not find the fine talk, but I tried and I believe most players will agree with me. Even so I announced my farewell - you disabled me. I am sorry we did not find solution and did not have discussion - So many players wrote me(more than 50): " please don t leave - this game will not be the same without you" I hope you will build this community better - I am sorry you had understood it as negative or even harrasment! Woow, I just hope you will not disband all your future critiziers - because every good community needs such people to grow, to improve to become more pluralistic. I wanted to finish at least my farewell game and say good bye to my friends, but it looks even I announced leaving soon - you want me to become your first AOC "martyr" just for sharing my opinions... I wish you all good luck and righteous decisions, Lukas


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 Post subject: Re: Lukas
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2017, 12:38 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 27 Jun 2017, 11:02
Posts: 1
yep, see U Lukas ! :pal:

btw I have my personal experiences that confirm many his words, have no hard proves so say only that there is bad weather and winter always is coming :furz: please consider :furz:


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 Post subject: Re: Lukas
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2017, 13:20 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 29 Apr 2017, 03:19
Posts: 6
We all do mistakes. Curare nows how bad of a person i was, but i changed. I believe Lukas could change. Also I think our Mods are trying they best to keep this community safe, peaceful. Lukas did hate Shadows so much everyday told me about it. But he aint a bad person. He is a honest player. Also i think mods are trying they best i support them all. But i say you guys should unban Lukas talk to him calmly. Its a big thing banning Nm.1 player. Maybe 1 last chance.
Thank you Moderators for keeping this community safe not trying to question your actions just saying my thoughts.


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 Post subject: Re: Lukas
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2017, 16:12 
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: 09 Mar 2017, 05:11
Posts: 41
curare wrote:
rooster,

if being a mod is so stressful to you, then maybe you should stop right away (:

i remember the one game we shared. we were neighbours and you sent me a text out of nowhere starting with 'wow, scumbag.', just because i had attacked you in the same turn you were sending a peace offer to me. i did not report you. i was a mod at the time and you weren't. i let you know that this language was not proper here and you apparently came around and even became a mod yourself.

and now you don't want to grant others such opportunities, too?

your behaviour was not different from what you are describing.

nice dancing.


1 - Quit because I disagreed with something and threw a tantrum, like you did? No. :roll:
2 - You attacked me the turn AFTER I sent you the alliance request instead of responding to me at all. :irre:
3 - You're upset because one time I called you a mildly not-nice name prior to having any mod responsibilities after you did an untrustworthy thing? Remember the total beat down I gave you afterwards? You deserved that. :p


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 Post subject: Re: Lukas
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2017, 21:09 
Freeman
Freeman

Joined: 28 Aug 2016, 21:04
Posts: 136
rooster, nice job of missing the point here, not a surprise though.

have fun with your memory :happyx:


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 Post subject: Re: Lukas
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2017, 21:13 
Peasant
Peasant

Joined: 24 May 2017, 13:07
Posts: 21
As I'm sure most of you are by now well aware it was me who implemented the recent sabotage of Shadows clan. Here's my little piece on why I took this action and my thoughts on Lukas.

First of all I'll admit I had a hell of a lot of fun messing with the mighty shadows. Hey, if we can't all enjoy a bit of banter every now and then the world really is a sad place!

Do I regret kicking their members from their own clan?...

Nope..

Do I regret redistributing their coins?..

Defiantly not...

Do I regret changing their clan profile picture to a troll face?..

Hell No!

So I broke some rules for a bit of fun. I can understand why I was punished for this. I was actually somewhat surprised to receive only a 'silence' for my actions rather than the ban Lukas received for only his words.

But I didn't take this action solely for selfish reasons. I was approached by a notable number of players both inside the shadows clan and out of it. Many of these players are much more honourable than I consider myself. I've read much of the debate regarding what the Shadows may or may not have done. I decided when enough players I respected and trusted were expressing their displeasure with shadows that there was grounds for me to take action. I was given the password to a Shadows account by members of their own clan... and the rest is history.

About Lukas. I have only had the honour of playing with Lukas on a handful of occasions (one of which I am proud so say I came close to beating him!). He is a brilliant strategic player and I can only express my sincere desire for him to be allowed to return to the game. Sure, he might have committed a bit of harassment but he did this not with the intention of hurting others, but in the desire to change the game and to right what he considered to be wrongs. The mistake many members make to assume that all significant conflict between players is bad for the game. Quite the contrary! The passionate debate, even if at times bitter, that Lukas inspired intrigues and often entertains other users and actually contributes to a more engaged community. The kind of abuse Lukas was known for only criticized players with respect to the way they chose to play AoC. In my opinion this is not the sort of abuse that admins should be seeking to punish. Lets focus on punishing the racists, the sexists and the downright deplorable players who use the game only as a way to hurt others. To the admins I say this; please do not punish passion!


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 Post subject: Re: Lukas
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2017, 23:15 
Freeman
Freeman

Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 08:15
Posts: 136
Location: Russia, Ekaterinburg
I think we lived before the time when criminals are praised himself for the crimes committed. If the abomination protects a player is good or bad?
I talked to Jacob719 about Lukas. The opinion I expressed to him. He expressed his arguments. We are not a circus. I'm in the game since 2012. There were a lot of different players. The good and the bad. I was with Lukas in the same clan. I left the clan because of the information that I knew about Lukas. I know well his the methods of the game and how victories. Unlike him, I have not watered players with dirt. This is not my method. I believe that administrators have made their decision and this decision should be respected. When you have a few warnings one should clearly follow the rules. And don't let yourself too much.

P.S. I think Lukas is already back in the game. Under a new name...Кarlos or something...We will soon his again see and hear.

P.S.1. Express additional opinions. All who participated in this action, the capture of account, transfer data of the player. All they blackguards. No one showed nobility and did not stop the process. It was necessary to contact the moderators of the game. And for me, there is no difference between those who steal account and those who participates as an accomplice. (by the way, legally, they have committed theft of another's property).
It is time to introduce in the game new status warning: pilferer

_________________
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Lukas
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2017, 01:15 
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: 14 Dec 2011, 21:25
Posts: 396
Petraa you make it sound like you had something to do with what happened to Lukas. Which is not the case.


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