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 Post subject: Beware of trusting Petraa76
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012, 12:33 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 08 Apr 2011, 17:47
Posts: 12
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Written dialog extract from the 1st May Day Tournament:

Come on Petraa76!

You ask for peace and swing in with 21k troops on t6, ignoring my written agreement which reached you before you made that move.

How underhand is that??

(You will note I used the exact number of troops needed for the expansion so I really messed up by trusting you).

--
Sorry...
--
Agreed. Leave me the rest of the NE neutrals - there are not many territories there and you have plenty of others to choose from. We can have peace with a 4 turn warning - we can make it official when we have turns to spare.
--
What I suggested - suitable?
I suggest now is not to fight, but simply divide to be honest province in the North.
Later we'll decide whether we fight or make an Alliance.


More fool me for trusting him :)

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 Post subject: Re: Beware of trusting Petraa76
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012, 16:58 
Freeman
Freeman

Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 08:15
Posts: 139
Location: Russia, Ekaterinburg
I attacked a neutral province. The question of trust or not trust?
Or all of the Eastern and Northern provinces originally belong to Whippy?
Apology I had brought for the fact that a neutral province first captured Whippy, but then in the same stroke me. I always apologize for such cases.
My suggestion would be to fairly divide the neutral province without war. How much I use troops to ensure the capture of neutral province is my right.
I don't really understand the claims of Whippy. Can someone explain to me this?
The most important thing. I have not attacked the territory of Whippy.
Well, in the end. There now there are 4 neutral area. From the point of view of Whippy, how many provinces should come to me, and how old is he? To be honest, 2 for 2. I think his version of honest section is other.

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 Post subject: Re: Beware of trusting Petraa76
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012, 18:32 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 08 Apr 2011, 17:47
Posts: 12
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Your rebuttal would make some sense if I had not discussed the neutral territories in the exchange.

Perhaps this is a result of your bad English translator. I will give you another chance.

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 Post subject: Re: Beware of trusting Petraa76
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2012, 19:11 
Freeman
Freeman

Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 08:15
Posts: 139
Location: Russia, Ekaterinburg
Whippy, I do not need any chances. I am acting in the framework of its logic. If the province is neutral, then I have it I can take. I will in EACH game capture neutral province. If the capture of neutral province should cause distrust, then I have no words.
This is the essence of the game. It's you for the information.

P.S. I wrote this because of the incorrectness of the formulated theme.

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 Post subject: Re: Beware of trusting Petraa76
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2012, 19:11 
Knight
Knight
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Joined: 27 Apr 2006, 03:47
Posts: 1267
Location: location, location.
I don't want to get in the middle of someone else's fight, but I will provide for frame of reference my understanding of verbal agreements and the status of neutral territories.

If two players attack the same neutral province in the same turn (known as a 'bump'), it is not considered an act of aggression, and whoever ends up with the territory has rights to it. It doesn't matter how many troops are involved. This of course assumes there was no specific agreement about the specific province consented to by BOTH players prior to the move.

Each player is free to gobble up as many neutral provinces as they can, even to the point of boxing a verbal ally in, unless BOTH parties have agreed to some partition or leaving a path open PRIOR to the neutrals being grabbed by anyone.

Players may, by mutual agreement, swap, donate, or sell a small number of provinces to a verbal ally in order to provide said ally with some tactical advantage against a third party or access to a portion of the map.

In my experiences, if two players enter into a simple verbal alliance, neither player can later unilateraly lay claim to any portion of the map or any number of neutral provinces without the other player's consent. If the other player gobbles up what seems like an unfair portion of the map, the other player can ASK FOR but not demand return of or restraint from advancing into any particular area of the map. If the other player refuses, too bad, you may decide to fight him but he has not acted dishonorably nor has he broken his treaty with you.

Similarly, ASKING for concessions without any direct threat attached does not constitute dishonorable behavior nor does it void the verbal agreement.

Of course, in all this, it behooves both players to consider the impact that their actions may have on their overall reputation, and that doing a small favor for someone at one point may provide opportunity for a very badly needed return favor some time in the future. So there is good reason to heed a request made by another player, even though you may not be strictly required to comply by the 'guidelines' of honorable play.

Having said all that, I'm not taking any sides in this debate, and will not get involved except to offer my own opinions based on my own experiences. Please don't ask me any hypothetical questions, I do not feel compelled to answer for every possible situation. Instead I urge you to work things out between you and let compassion and common sense prevail.

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 Post subject: Re: Beware of trusting Petraa76
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012, 04:25 
Knight
Knight
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Joined: 23 Feb 2012, 17:45
Posts: 1219
:hug:

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 Post subject: Re: Beware of trusting Petraa76
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012, 18:36 
Investigator
Investigator
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008, 18:23
Posts: 3831
Location: Planet Earth, most of the time.
I was going to stay out out of this too but someone did ask for a third party to explain it. I think TotalLoss did a good job explaining verbal agreements even if he did steal my thunder by over explaining it. :lol:

Lastly, the posting from Whippy shows what was said after there was a dispute. We don't know what was said in the initial agreement. Therefore, we don't know who misunderstood whom or who broke their word. Therefore, we can't explain anymore than that what TotlLoss covered.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of trusting Petraa76
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012, 02:28 
Knight
Knight
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Joined: 27 Apr 2006, 03:47
Posts: 1267
Location: location, location.
Geez, there's just no pleasing some peeps. Here I was so proud of garnering the first-ever hug from Howie and it turns out I p-ed off fodder in the process. :headbash:

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 Post subject: Re: Beware of trusting Petraa76
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012, 03:42 
Knight
Knight
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Joined: 23 Feb 2012, 17:45
Posts: 1219
and it's so rare that i give the hug... shame on u fodder! spanking

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 Post subject: Re: Beware of trusting Petraa76
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2012, 11:55 
Investigator
Investigator
User avatar

Joined: 06 Jul 2008, 18:23
Posts: 3831
Location: Planet Earth, most of the time.
Hmm, here's a philosophical quandary for you to ponder.
Perhaps KingHoward and I are two different sides of the same coin?
No matter how you flip it, you will get hugs from one of us while ticking the other one off.
:???: :irre: :headbash:


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