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Board index » Games » Age of Conquest (AOC) » AOC: Modding Discussions & Workshop


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 Post subject: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012, 12:17 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 14 Nov 2012, 11:09
Posts: 17
This is based on a real medieval map of that region.

Still in progress (working on the last bit - scenarios. Main bit is done though).

Map has 282 provinces.

Screenshots:

Image

Image

Will add more information, description, etc when I have more time.

Also, this is to show noblemaster that this would not be as graphically feasible with isometric system.


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 Post subject: Re: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012, 18:20 
Game Developer
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005, 02:34
Posts: 8414
Location: Honolulu
Looks nice :kg:

re-isometric system: I started working on a HEX-based strategy game. It's NOT top-down but will use an isometric projection. Given this will be turn-based, HEXes make more sense compared to isometric tiles. 6 direction of movement...

Version 0.0001 screenshot:
https://twitter.com/noblemaster/status/ ... 13/photo/1

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 Post subject: Re: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012, 09:04 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 14 Nov 2012, 11:09
Posts: 17
HEX makes more sense than isometric tiles, sure but is it better than what you have right now ? Whilst creating the map I really enjoyed tree/node system (provinces<->connections)... Gives you a lot flexibility the way can create a map... This one was just a graphical historically accurate exercise... But you can really come up with all sorts of stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I understand your move towards more quantified approach because this actually gives you more standardized approach in everything including creating maps, etc. but at the same time it's less flexible...


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 Post subject: Re: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012, 11:41 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 14 Nov 2012, 11:09
Posts: 17
Regarding the map, scenarios have accurate historical nations with their borders, diplomatic relations and flags. Scenarios do not have province names. Armies are of the same size per province.

Just finished XIII century. Example screenshot:

Image

Too bad titles are randomly associated and we have no flexibility in choosing our own. For example, in this screenshot Old Prussians never had a king just a tribe leader, and Lithuanians only had one king during this period, there has never been a Queen nor Orders like Teutons or Livonians have Dukes, - they have Magistrates.


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 Post subject: Re: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012, 17:01 
Game Developer
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005, 02:34
Posts: 8414
Location: Honolulu
No worries, the HEX-game isn't a replacement for AOC. Just something else... :kg:

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 Post subject: Re: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2012, 11:49 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 14 Nov 2012, 11:09
Posts: 17
Good to know.

Just completed XIV Century when Teutons and Livonians completely conquered Prussians and some Baltic tribes in their respective regions. In addition, you have Principality of Pskov regaining independence from Novgorod Republic, emergence of Grand Duchy of Moscow (Muscovy) as a vassal (tributary) to Godlen Horde. Golden Horde is starting to shrink due to Grand Duchy of Lithuania conquests. Also, Kingdom of Poland starting to annex Kingdom of Galicia-Volhynia (Halych-Volyn) which is also a vassal of Golden Horde. Meanwhile joint forces of Teutonic and Livonian Orders intensify their long lasting campaign / crusade against Grand Duchy of Lithuania.

Here are couple of screenshots:

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2012, 07:49 
Serf
Serf
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Joined: 24 Mar 2011, 23:17
Posts: 19
Location: Poznań, Poland
as a Pole, I just can't wait to see it in full view on my computer

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 Post subject: Re: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2012, 11:03 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 14 Nov 2012, 11:09
Posts: 17
XV Century - Done.

This century is both exciting and boring at the same time. We have significant expansion of Grand Duchy of Lithuania, pushing Golden Horde back to East and shrinking Novgorod Republic. Crimean Khanate emerges as an independent state which further weakens Golden Horde. Kingdom of Poland completely annexes Halych-Volynhia erasing it from the map whilst battling Teutonic Order on the Baltic shores. Meanwhile Swedes kneel down to Denmark as their vassals.

Screenshots:

Image

Image

Fiederhorf, scenarios could be even more interesting to play if I had the time to adjust population and economy per century.

I also could put in the Province names which would add extra flavor. However, it wouldn't help players to navigate through the map easier when coordinating with each other during a game.

I might also amend some of the territories because even though it is realistic in game it makes extremely unfair (that is what I mean by boring...), like giving Poland chunk of Lithuania's South-East corner across XIV and XV centuries.


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 Post subject: Re: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2012, 19:11 
Investigator
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008, 18:23
Posts: 3831
Location: Planet Earth, most of the time.
That's one of the problem with historical battles/maps. They don't always make for a good balance game.
However, you can have a historically accurate scenarios for those who wish a challenge or what to relive history. And then have a balance scenario for a fair and balance game play. AoC lets you have your cake and eat it too. :p


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 Post subject: Re: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012, 10:29 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 14 Nov 2012, 11:09
Posts: 17
Yes, it's just ironic that the maps you spend the most time creating (historical scenarios), will probably end up being played the least, whereas with balanced ones its quite straight forward, - give equal amount of provinces to each player, and that's that.

I suppose you could play with population and economy levels to compensate territorial differences but the problem is, it's very hard to calibrate since you don't have a quantified number that tells you where a particular player stands as a result of a function of inputs:
a) Economy and Population of all provinces occupied
b) Number of troops
c) Amount of provinces
d) Diplomatic status (i.e. bigger the nation a player is allied with, higher the contribution to the result score; i.e. smaller the nation a player is at war with, smaller the negative value contributed to the result score)

These are just off the top of my head. I am pretty sure you can think of many others to make the score more reflective of reality.

As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong here, noblemaster, the only measure of ranking is by Score which is determined by amount of provinces occupied (c).

However, all these inputs lose their point because a victory is determined by amount of provinces occupied hence the most sensible metric to display as a total score is derived from provinces occupied...


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 Post subject: Re: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012, 11:38 
Serf
Serf
User avatar

Joined: 24 Mar 2011, 23:17
Posts: 19
Location: Poznań, Poland
You see, I've got some doubts about the scenarios,
for example in XIV century:

in 1320 Poland looked like this
Image

and in 1370 like this
Image

PS. I can also deliver you many other maps of that area, from X to XX century

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 Post subject: Re: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012, 12:30 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 14 Nov 2012, 11:09
Posts: 17
As I am doing scenario per century, I cannot accommodate decade by decade territorial changes. What I am doing though, is picking spot territories at around 5th-7th decades (i.e. 40s-60s).

In this case, 1320 and 1370 would fall under XIV Century (check above posts for map) and I suppose 1370 is the closest that I came up with.

In addition, the degree of rotation of maps is not the same which distorts the direction of a territory (the way it's flipped) in your examples.

But I reckon I will amend mine to have those two eastern "bumps" in 1370s map, looking at this map it seems the right thing to do.

What would be helpful if you overlaid 12th-18th century maps with mine resizing your image according to the approximate scale of mine and try to detect the direction ("flipage") as well. Then I will try to do my best to further improve territory distribution.


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 Post subject: Re: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012, 03:36 
Serf
Serf
User avatar

Joined: 24 Mar 2011, 23:17
Posts: 19
Location: Poznań, Poland
not sure what you mean by all this technical details you speak of..
but I will try to do my best :happyx:

if you want you can also use maps of Europe:
http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/index.html

and specifically the area:
http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/oder_dnieper/index.html

I'll check my 12th-18th cenury maps,
but it would be easier to send them in an email to you than posting them

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 Post subject: Re: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012, 11:36 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 14 Nov 2012, 11:09
Posts: 17
Great. I'll have a look at those and try to match.

I usually use Centennia software. It's how those all Youtube videos are made "10 centuries in 5 minutes time lapse of europe", etc.

It's just that every map is different and at some point you have to make a decision which one to rely on or find some sort of middle ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Northeastern Europe Deluxe
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2012, 11:45 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 14 Nov 2012, 11:09
Posts: 17
Apologies for the delay. Been busy. Will resume in Jan or Feb, should finish in a week or so.

Happy holidays everyone.


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